[danzer]

Which rear brakes in your opinion are the best and why? (eg. Ven04, Ven05, BS7, MB, Evo 8 etc...)

If possible, which one are you using.

[JohnKing6]

My GP10 uses Ven05 and they are, by some margin, the best brakes I've ever used in terms of feel. Of course, all kart brakes are good and basically only limited by the amount of grip the rear end is generating and how well the drivers left foot (and brain) can feel what the limit is to get 99.99% effectiveness.

[Jules]

John,

I am sure some will disagree but the way karting brakes are set up ( even from brand new factory ) - its has a very short throw, almost on-off mode. Dunno if this develops any kinda feel esp for the new drivers but most of the young drivers like that!

Coming from a background of road car driving.....I prefer a longer stroke, hence giving a larger possibility for any form of a feel.....Oh well, maybe its my age catching up but what do you say?

Btw, I now hear the CRG ceramic brake disc rave has now reached our shores....

[JohnKing6]

John,

I am sure some will disagree but the way karting brakes are set up ( even from brand new factory ) - its has a very short throw, almost on-off mode. Dunno if this develops any kinda feel esp for the new drivers but most of the young drivers like that!

Coming from a background of road car driving.....I prefer a longer stroke, hence giving a larger possibility for any form of a feel.....Oh well, maybe its my age catching up but what do you say?

Btw, I now hear the CRG ceramic brake disc rave has now reached our shores....

That why I like the Ven05 on the GP - the floating disk and pads gives a bit more feel so it's not an on/off switch. The front are the same - you can use them a little or a lot and, especially in the rain, it helps a lot - using a little bit of front brake basically settles the front end and lets you turn in better, even in the wet.

As I said, it's about how well you can balance braking with grip. My 5 year old MBA chassis brakes will still let me stop the back axle from turning - the issue is how close (and quickly) you can get to stopping the axle without actually stopping it

Personally I'm not going to pay the extra rmx,xxx for a ceramic disk Maybe those people that habitually overheat their brakes might need it.

[DMmotorsport]

The best brakes on the market is the Brembo/MQ !
The Ven05 is made by bembo too... but the original brembo's have 1 big adventage and that is that the brake-discs are the one with the lowest weight...
Which shows off in the karts'performance, this is proven on our testing bench....

For sure, when you drive for hobby, all systems are OK...
But for the agressivity of the braking, this is a matther of the systems'factory having different types of pads, Sintered, organic or what ever mix.....

Ciao, KRistof
DMmotorsport

[Mikko Nassi]

Some manufacturers claim theirs are the best because they have the lightest discs (a bit of extra rotational mass on a kart brake disc doesn't actually effect anything), a special material, radial mounting, or anything else to differentiate them a bit. It's obvious that those that sell karts will say that their's are the best .

I've found that every single kart I've driven that has working brakes (in good condition and with nothing wrong) has good brakes. There are some specific characteristics, for example an MBA I drove had incredibly sensitive brakes. Don't forget that there is a fair bit of adjustment you can do to change the feel - if they're too sensitive just move the brake rod lower on the pedal, or as DM mentioned different pads will give a different feel as well.

With the front brakes I've heard some say that the Birel brakes are a bit of an on-off switch, but they probably have some adjustment in them as well. The Intrepid ones are easy to modulate, they're the only ones I've driven with so I can't compare.

For me the most important thing is consistency - if the brake travel/feel changes a lot during a day then you're losing time because you have to constantly adapt.

I am sure some will disagree but the way karting brakes are set up ( even from brand new factory ) - its has a very short throw, almost on-off mode. Dunno if this develops any kinda feel esp for the new drivers but most of the young drivers like that!

The short throw isn't a problem for me. Long travel is annoying in a kart imo because usually that means that 3/4 of the travel is still zero brakes. You modulate more with the pressure rather than the distance (and that's where you can really learn the feel). That's exactly how race car/single seater brakes feel - very little travel but you control it with the pressure. Road cars have a lot of travel, and if you use them on the track it becomes a problem.

[Jules]

The short throw isn't a problem for me. Long travel is annoying in a kart imo because usually that means that 3/4 of the travel is still zero brakes. You modulate more with the pressure rather than the distance (and that's where you can really learn the feel). That's exactly how race car/single seater brakes feel - very little travel but you control it with the pressure. Road cars have a lot of travel, and if you use them on the track it becomes a problem.

You are rite on the pressure modulation and i do mean that, if possible and not just free stroke doing nothing.

On cars, for sure we have this "longish but doing nothing brake stroke" and hence.....the left foot braking need for some corners...but then thats a different topic.

Formula cars, is like a kart - very little travel but pressure modulation is possible, like u said.

[JohnKing6]

We're all in violent agreement here - you want as short a throw as possible but then good feel for the pressure

[DMmotorsport]

Indeed, BUT, is that setup possible with all types and brands of braking systems? NO !
....
NO NO NO for sure

As i said, we tested a lot, and i mean A LOT of braking systems which we wanted to use on our chassis... almost a year token for this, we tested mainainance, temps, feeling, costs,
speed between light and heavy discs.... and so on, and so on !
For sure the Bembo(as expected before was the best in tests, but almost the most epensive)
But for sure we race 1 whole season, 2 times a week, and the only thing we changed is the oil sometime (const 10 Euro) and the pads (which are more expensive, but worth it)...

so for sure, do not think a brake is just a brake...

ps: we tested this on the shifter... it is totaly different thing than the rotax max hobby-class...
as there are heavier brakes not that important, the same for feeling...

ciao, KRistof

[Mikko Nassi]

speed between light and heavy discs...

I'd be interested to hear what you found the difference was in speed. What was the difference in weight between the lightest and heaviest discs?

[DMmotorsport]

Our top speed on the straight testtrack, starting from zero was 178 with the heavy ones, and 186 with the brembo's
(all other where between)

ciao, KRistof

ps: in KM/h

[Mikko Nassi]

Did you happen to record wind direction and speed, air temperature, tyre circumference and make sure they were all the same between the runs?

A difference in brake disc weight couldn't possibly be measured by the top speed achieved because you'd have to do it with exactly the same conditions. The difference couldn't be measured otherwise. An 8kph difference in top speed couldn't possibly be explained by a different weight brake disc.

[DMmotorsport]

OW yes it can... especially because the time between 0 and 50 and 0 and 100, and 0 and 15 was faster....
It is very easy to explain excually... it is the same as the flywheel of an engine
exactly the same

gr. KRistof

[Mikko Nassi]

I'd like to hear you try to explain it .

[JohnKing6]

I'd like to hear the explanation as well - particularly why it makes such a difference on shifter karts and not on the "hobby" Rotax's which most of us use. If rotational weight makes a difference, you'd assume that it makes more difference the lower the power rather than the other way around.