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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:17 pm 
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Ron Dennis letter to Luigi Macaluso
c.c. Max Mosley, President FIA & Jean Todt, CEO Ferrari SpA

The full letter can be read here on the McLaren website.

Too long to post it in the forum

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:54 pm 
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Luigi Macaluso responds to Ron Dennis
c.c. Max Mosley, President FIA & Jean Todt, CEO Ferrari SpA

Quote:
Dear Mr Dennis,

Article 151c of the International Sporting Code

I refer to your letter of 1 August 2007.

It is apparent from your letter that there is a distinct difference between McLaren’s view of events and that of Ferrari. It therefore seems appropriate for the matter to be reviewed by the International Court of Appeal as decided by the FIA President, Mr. Mosley.

It is not my role nor would it be appropriate for me to answer your various points. It will be for the Court of Appeal to do so.

In any event, I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty. As Mr Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the World Championship that the correct outcome is reached.
It is clearly in the interest of the sport that the appropriate precedent for dealing with events such as these is set.

At the hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on 26 July 2007, Ferrari was legally represented but attended the meeting merely as an observer. It accordingly did not have sufficient opportunity to present to the Council or ask questions of key individuals involved in this matter in order to test their evidence. A hearing before the International Court of Appeal will allow Ferrari an opportunity to present its evidence and arguments in detail.

Yours sincerely

Luigi Macaluso
The President of ACI-CSAI


This is getting way to fun to follow. F1 need another TV show for the off-track politics. Show should be call "F1-Law" :D

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:19 am 
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RocK wrote:
For me, McLaren just having the the document is wrong. They dont have to use it. Just having and reading it is enough to have some form of sanctions impose.

Me and Flavio Briatore have the same view
Quote:
"If they had that information then they should be punished, I am not a judge, but we have ethical and sporting rules, and these must be adhered to."

"Really it is simple, The rules need to be respected, and those who do not respect them must be punished."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:24 am 
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lol this is cool... especially with a bit of a gap in the F1 calendar... lucky it's back to racing this weekend :D

I say Mclaren will still somehow get away with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:40 pm 
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More from Flavio Briatore

Quote:
"Had I only known Ferrari's weight distribution, or how big their tank is, if I had a bit of those documents, then we surely wouldn't be in this situation today,"

"Dennis says he's immaculate, but it's hard to believe him. No, I don't believe in his good faith. In a team everyone knows everything."

"It's an extremely serious thing that he hasn't yet been fired,"

"All the team managers should say that in F1 there's no more room for them."

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:01 pm 
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Let's hope my post get up this time.

I read Ron Dennis's letter and I would say the letter is frank and professional.

Not taking any sides but I can say for sure, Stephney and Coughlans careers in F1 are over. I doubt any team, not esp Honda want such liabilities in their outfit.

Naturally, I cannot comprehend the intention why Coughlan wanted to keep the info and how stupid can he to get it scan in a public shop.....a scanner wun cost too much rite?

Stephney, the whistleblower at the start seems a disgruntled employee and this wun also auger well with the fact that he approach a rival team to whistle blow.

Well, I am sure HONDA wun want such staff....

At end of the day, it is clear that F1 is still very much a business where competition and copyrights are serious issues. Let all budding F1 stars learn that business is a very serious game afterall. ( esp ours seeking sponsors and their dream drive )

Anyway, keen to see how this ends but I do like Ron's ending. Let the battle be on track rather than courts and media.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:20 am 
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The whole story about Stephney be a whistleblower is a Dennis made up bull$#@^ story.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:21 am 
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RocK wrote:
The whole story about Stephney be a whistleblower is a Dennis made up bull$#@^ story.


There can be no doubt. Ron claims Stepney was blowing the whistle on an illegal rear wing and an illegal floor. I think it's only whistle blowing when you expose something illegal :wink: The rear wing was and is still legal and in use. The floor was also perfectly legal (that's why there was no penalty) but the FIA didn't like it being legal and changed their interpretation of a rule to make it illegal in the future.

Ron Dennis is the most incompetent bull$#@^er that ever lived!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:11 pm 
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In my opinion, It is small things like this that can really kill the sport. Won't you agree we just want to watch top drivers over take each other and these little petty arguements is killing the sport.

I'm just hoping that F1 will not be regarded as the same ranks as World Rally or something like that. I really hope that no matter what F1 stays as the top ranked of all sports.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:11 am 
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This kind of thing is part of F1 :P

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:18 pm 
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RocK wrote:
Ferrari got tip-off only because of Mike Coughlan wife Trudy Coughlan have taken the 780-page Ferrari document to a photocopying shop for reproduction.

Too bad for them as the photocopying staff is a Ferrari F1 fan.

Ferrari´s President Luca di Montezemolo has dedicated Ferrari´s one-two to the team's fans and to the English man who informed the Italian team about the person that wanted to copy Ferrari documents in his photocopy shop in June.

Quote:
"I want to dedicate it to our fans who believe in the fairness of the sport and to this English gentleman who in the month of June wanted to inform us that someone linked to an opponent team entered into his shop and asked him to copy dozens of pages containing technical information about our car."

"Without him it would never have been possible to shine the light on to one of the worst pages in the history of motorsport."

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:41 am 
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This thing got me thinking, particularly with the thread titled as it is... do you guys feel that McLaren was really cheating in the racing-sense?

imo they haven't cheated - there's nothing in the rule book that says you can't obtain competitor's information and use it. Spying goes on all the time be it just looking at photographs or recording audio of competitors' cars trackside. All other teams would've done exactly what McLaren has - taken the information and used it.

Of course in the corporate world what they've done is illegal, but in racing it isn't cheating in the way that say running a car with active suspension when it's banned is.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:33 pm 
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The data - 780 pages and over 200 SMS and calls from Stepney to Coughlan - was stolen from Ferrari and used to improve McLaren's competitiveness, ie improve their car, improve their strategy and complain to the FIA about Ferrari's car.

If I stole your Rotax Max engine and opened it up to discover the secrets of its preparation would I be cheating?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:57 am 
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Mikko Nassi wrote:
This thing got me thinking, particularly with the thread titled as it is... do you guys feel that McLaren was really cheating in the racing-sense?

For me, 100% yes their were cheating.

Yes, spying goes on all the time. In F1, its a art by it-self. Just that McLaren got caught. once caught will be label as cheats. Same story with Toyota in rally. Rumor was most top teams were using some form of turbo bypass. just that Toyota got caught and label cheats.

I feel Ron was in it for the beginning. Ron wrote a 5 page document directly to Macaluso (FIA). In it he accuse Ferrari of winning the Australian GP with an illegal car. He then claims that Stepney is acting as a whistleblower and informed them of the illegal devices at the beginning of this season.

My guess Ron gets Stepney SMS too.. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:31 am 
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i think they did cheat by using the information they gained, although impossible to prove.

first of all they adapated so well to the bridgestone rubber when reiging champions renault struggled after the change from michelin.

secondly, they were the first team after ferrari to add that lip to the front wing. They could have just looked at the ferrari car and added one the same, but it may not work, they must have used the information from ferrari for it to be so effective immediately. Other teams like williams are only just beginning to test that style front wing, basically it takes time to develop / test.


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