Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

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Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Mikko Nassi » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:27 am

The final rounds of both the Asia Max Challenge and Indonesia Max Challenge were held at the Sentul International Karting Circuit last weekend.

Ryan Manoarfa took the Senior win with a commanding win followed by Alexandra who took the Indonesian championship title by a massive margin. I finished in 4th and took the Asia Max Title :D. Fei Hoong had a DNF in the final.

In the Juniors Silvano Christian won both the pre-finals and finals by a mile, followed to 2nd and the Asia Max Challenge championship by Nabil. Rio Haryanto came into the final round with a healthy points lead in the Indonesian championship and didn't fail to capitalise on that.

I'll get more results later.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby RocK » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:13 am

Mikko Nassi wrote:took the Asia Max Title

Congrats.. :D
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Alex Ritchie » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:46 am

Many thanks again to Pak Samsul, Mbak Lika and Mbak Lucky for helping us with everything. We will be back next year to race again on the best track in South East Asia, run by the friendliest people in Asia!

Ryan's weekend could best be called a learning experience. He messed up qualifying because he could not find the right line in the rain. Heat 1 started 13th, got up to 7th. Heat 2 started 13th and was fighting his way up when someone spun in front of him and he went off into the grass to avoid a pileup. Pre-final started 11th, moving up again when he went over a kerb and cracked his seat. Next corner the bottom of his seat broke, his bum touched the circuit and he went off in shock from the novel sensation... :bounce:

Final started 13th, finished 6th. Kart was great, engine was strong and reliable, thanks to CM Racing, but driver just could not put it together...
Last edited by Alex Ritchie on Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Geoff Green » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:41 pm

Sound like everyone should have a round of applause (especially of course for our Malaysian contingent)
Congrats to Nabil, Ryan & Rahimi for showing Asia that Malaysian juniors rock with 1, 2 & 3 in Asia Max!
Mikko - excellent job and reward for your hard work.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Mikko Nassi » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:16 pm

Alex Ritchie wrote:his bum touched the circuit and he went off in shock from the novel sensation... :bounce:

We had a laugh about that one ;). A bunch of people had a laugh at me as well before I went out for qualifying on Saturday = the wooden flooring in the pits is very slippery when wet! I went flying and landed with a very respectable thump.... I had my helmet in my left hand so while saving my helmet I saved myself with my right arm - still very sore.

And yes a big thank you again to Lika, Lucky, and Samsul! From waiting at the airport and working on getting the container out and everything else you made the weekends a lot easier and fun than it would've been without you! And thanks to whoever finally got the container arranged out of customs!

My weekend in detail = the Malaysian contingent had a slight problem with the container - it only arrived late on Friday! The AKOC guys had similar problems two weeks earlier but got their karts in a day earlier so had friday for pratice. The organisers did add a few practice sessions on Saturday for the "container class". :D

My engine had a similar problem as it did in Malaysia rd5 so I was a bit worried because there were some very fast drivers there, including of course fei hoong who was ahead of me in the championship. Always a bit of hesitation when around 12,000rpm, especially when the engine was cold - so my starts were always crap. The engine only starts working okish when the temperature gets above 70C!

Anyways on to qualifying which was wet but slightly drying. I was behind Rama Dadindro at the beginning and was comfortably faster so knew I had pace for pole... I left a bit of a gap to Rama to get some laps in later but unfortunately got caught in more traffic and my fastest lap was 3 laps from the end, but still surprisinly enough for pole. Rama qualified in 2nd. John King put in a stellar performance qualifying in 3rd!

Heat 1 was dry as was the rest of the weekend and I knew I didn't quite have the pace in the dry as I did in the wet - I lost 1st on the start and then 2nd place a bit later and finished in 3rd. Heat 2 again on pole and this time John King gave me a proper push on the start so I was able to keep P1 - and the top guys fought with eachother enough so that I was able to keep 1st to the end, which set me up for pole position for the pre-final. Meanwhile Fei Hoong had trouble in qualifying but was very fast and was starting in 6th I think. I was 5 points behind him coming into Indonesia.

I got easily overtaken on the straights during the first 2-3 laps by Ryan and Alexandra but as the engine temp went up I was able to maintain 3rd. Rama DNFed with a seized engine I think. Fei Hoong came in 5th so that would've put him 3 points ahead of me going into the final, but unfortunately for him he got caught out by the new CIK starting regulations when he moved out of his "lane" before the lights went out and got a 10 second penalty - putting me 2 points ahead in the championship before the final and him back in 11th place on the grid. A few races ago that rule didn't exist so very unlucky for him. Meanwhile Afiq made it all the way from last to 6th (he missed the heats to do his PFX at Sepang).

In the final I lost a place on the start and was a bit worried because I was being bumped from behind fairly often, really just wanting to finish the race either just ahead of fei hoong or at most 1 place behind. But only a few laps in I saw Fei Hoong walking by the side of the track so I knew that I had the championship in the bag. I made a bit of a go for 3rd again but didn't want to risk too much just in case (a DQ for aggressive driving for example;)), so finished in 4th. Turns out Fei Hoong had a coming together with Afiq when Fei Hoong tried to overtake him. It put both of them out of contention, although Afiq was able to finish the race without a powervalve cover after getting his exhaust put back on in the pits.

It was a bit anti-climatic because I was expecting a hell of a battle with fei hoong doing everything he could to get 2 places ahead of me, but it was a bit of a relief as well and took the pressure off ;).

Oh and very good drive by Nabil in the Juniors - in the pre-final he thought about the championship, relaxed and sat back just to make sure he finished, rather than going all-out for the win. Ryan Ritchie still had a chance if Nabil had a horrible weekend, but bringing it home safely was more than enough.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Ryan104 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:16 am

Good to see the championships get swept up by malaysians....well done.

Some awesome track there hey, would be scary without the bottom of your seat though for sure :x
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Jules » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:39 am

RocK wrote:
Mikko Nassi wrote:took the Asia Max Title

Congrats.. :D


Mikko,

Congrats too and at least that's the highlight for you in 2008! :D
Why have 300hp when you cannot handle a kart's 30hp?
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Alex Ritchie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:07 am

Mikko Nassi wrote:
Fei Hoong came in 5th so that would've put him 3 points ahead of me going into the final, but unfortunately for him he got caught out by the new CIK starting regulations when he moved out of his "lane" before the lights went out and got a 10 second penalty - putting me 2 points ahead in the championship before the final and him back in 11th place on the grid. A few races ago that rule didn't exist so very unlucky for him.



The official results state" "Kart #91 jump start penalty (+10 seconds)", so Fei Hoong was not "caught out by the new CIK starting regulations"....he was adjudged to jumped the start. Strange to see that he was not shown the "jump start" board during the race. Look at Yazid's video and judge for yourself...
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Mikko Nassi » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:30 am

Alex Ritchie wrote:
Mikko Nassi wrote:A few races ago that rule didn't exist so very unlucky for him.

The official results state" "Kart #91 jump start penalty (+10 seconds)", so Fei Hoong was not "caught out by the new CIK starting regulations"...

Yeah I think the officials used the wrong wording on the results... probably should've said "Moved out of his lane (+10 seconds)", unfortunately there is the same penalty for both.

I don't think there is anything in the regulations this year that require a jump start board to be shown to a driver but if it would've been a jump start and one was shown during the race I would've seen it as well which would've made the pre-final very interesting for me and Fei Hoong :D.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Alex Ritchie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:18 pm

Mikko Nassi wrote:Yeah I think the officials used the wrong wording on the results... probably should've said "Moved out of his lane (+10 seconds)", unfortunately there is the same penalty for both.



Whoa...hold on to your horses. It would be unwise and impudent to assume that the officials used the wrong wording. The official results in Sentul are signed by four people - the Steward of the Meet, the Race Director, the Clerk of the Course and one other official. It would be very wrong to assume all four of them made the same mistake.

Besides there were 5 cameras monitoring the course and the starting procedure according to the Race Promoter. I would assume that they referred to these before applying the penalty to Fei Hoong.

At any rate, if the officials had wanted to penalise Fei Hoong for "moved out of his lane" they would have followed Section 2.20 I, J and L of the 2008 CIK Sporting Regulations, which state:


I. The Clerk of the Course or the Race Director will give
the start as soon as he is satisfied with the formation.

J. In the case of repeated false starts or of incidents
during the Formation Lap(s), the Clerk of the Course or
the Race Director, acting as a Judge of Fact, may stop the
starting procedure by means of the red flag and inform the
Stewards, who will be entitled to inflict on the offending
Drivers a penalty according to Article 2.24 of the General
Prescriptions. A new procedure will begin either immediately
or within 30 minutes, according to the circumstances.
The starting grid will be the same as for the initial
procedure. All the Drivers present in the starting area or in
the repair area before the procedure was stopped will be
allowed to take the start of the new Formation Lap.

...

L...Rolling starts for direct drive karts with clutches

At the end of the Formation Lap, Drivers will go at a slow
speed towards the Start Line assembled in two lines of
karts. During the approach stage, the red lights will be on.
No kart shall accelerate before the red lights have been
switched off. Karts must maintain their position until
the start signal is given. If the Clerk of the Course or
the Race Director is satisfied with the formation, he will
give the start by switching off the red lights. If he is not
satisfied with the procedure, he will switch on the orange
light, which means that an extra Formation Lap must be
covered.


The prescribed punishment for causing an "incident" to delay the start is a 10 second time penalty. However, the Stewards are given the option of imposing one of a range of penalties under Section 153 of the International Sporting Code and these are:

153. Scale of penalties

Penalties may be inflicted as follows in order of increasing severity :
− reprimand (blame);
− fines;
− time penalty;
− exclusion;
− suspension;
− disqualification.


So, if indeed the officials had decided to penalise Fei Hoong for "moved out of his lane" the following would have occurred:

The first start would have been aborted and Fei Hoong would be shown a black and white diagonal flag together with his kart number. On the second start attempt, if Fei Hoong ignored the warning and moved out of his lane again, the whole starting procedure would have been stopped. Fei Hoong would have been told of the penalty imposed by the Stewards immediately - a warning, a fine, a time penalty, an exclusion... - and the starting procedure would have begun again. In the worst case scenario the Stewards could have removed him from the race altogether.

The above did not occur, so it is best to stick to the facts. Fei Hoong was judged to have jumped the start and this was confirmed by the four officials who signed the official results.
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Mikko Nassi » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:09 pm

I said "I think" so I may very well be wrong... I heard that the infraction was in fact moving out of the lane before the lights went out that is why I thought they used the wrong terminology... it is of course possible that officials make mistakes and use the wrong wording for example.

So, if indeed the officials had decided to penalise Fei Hoong for "moved out of his lane" the following would have occurred:

I'm not a steward and have never acted as one but I take the word "may" in the regulations to mean that the starter can still go ahead with the start despite some things not being perfect but if it is noticed that there was something wrong a penalty can still be imposed even though the race went green. With your interpretation nobody would ever even get a jump start penalty because a race would never be started if there was a jump start. The starter merely has to be "satisfied with the formation" to start a race. He doesn't have to be 100% certain that everyone is in position and in their lanes... otherwise we might have to spend all day at a track to get 1 heat completed. It is also impossible for a starter to notice everything.

I assumed Fei Hoong got caught out by this new part in the regulations:
K. Any attempts to jump the start or delay it and any
karts leaving the lane before the lights are switched
off
shall be sanctioned according to Article 2.24 of the
General Prescriptions.

I may very well be wrong and the officials thought there was a jump start. Whatever it was in the final which was the first time I started behind someone I was very, very careful not to move out of the lane :D.

Anyways the incident didn't involve me, I couldn't see the incident when it happened because I was starting further up the grid, and I haven't seen the videos with the lights switching off so I can't say who was right or wrong. Fei Hoong did ask me jokingly if I had seen what happened on the start - I said nope I was looking straight ahead :D. I'm not sure what those involved did but for those that feel a decision was wrong there is a fairly good appeals process that can be taken all the way to the FIA International Court of Appeals as well. Complaining about it on a forum doesn't do anything and the officials probably won't post a reply here either - best to give them a call or email them if you want to have a conversation with them. Good thing nobody involved is complaining about it here.

What is good is that the drivers are still mates and continue to have fun on the track. It is just the parents again as usual that are upset or complaining while the drivers are having a good time. :D

Thanks RocK and Jules for the congrats ;).
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Alex Ritchie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:47 pm

Mikko Nassi wrote:Complaining about it on a forum doesn't do anything and the officials probably won't post a reply here either - best to give them a call or email them if you want to have a conversation with them. Good thing nobody involved is complaining about it here.


I am not complaining about the officials. I am complaining about those who say the officials are wrong....
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Mikko Nassi » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:36 pm

Alex Ritchie wrote:I am not complaining about the officials. I am complaining about those who say the officials are wrong....

My bad. I often say that officials are wrong :lol: . I sent you a pm rather than going on about this here ;).
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby Alex Ritchie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:46 pm

When I grow up I want to be an official, so I guess I am a little sensitive about this!

:D :mrgreen: :twisted:
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Re: Rotax Max Challenge Asia Rd.4, Indonesia Rd.5

Postby JohnKing6 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:09 pm

Alex Ritchie wrote:When I grow up I want to be an official, so I guess I am a little sensitive about this!

:D :mrgreen: :twisted:


Problem is you (and I) will never grow up :-)

Here's my view on the incident. Fei Hoong was 6th on the grid and I was 7th so had a good view. He did not jump the start although he may well have (just) moved out of his lane before the lights turned green. So, I supported his appeal against the penalty on the basis that he absolutely didn't commit the offense he was penalised for. If you look at the video carefully, although Fei Hoong moves across before the rest of us, others did very shortly afterwards and we were all accelerating hard at the point he moved. So, it was a close call even on the moving out of lane. If you want a comparison, watch the kart in 8th position on the grid in the final and look where the wheels cross the white line in relation to the yellow line compared to Fei Hoong's (admittedly more obvious move) in the pre-final.

But, as everyone has said, it's pointless to debate it now - it's just a shame that it messed up the climax of an excellent championship battle between two great drivers.
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