[HK]

Well guys........ when will Malaysia hold an AKOC event, so that I can come and eat the great delicious food there??

[Gary80]

Yes it seems crazy AKOC is an Asian Karting Championship and Malaysia is a very active karting country and has a large contingent of drivers who are competing in the whole AKOC championship yet we do not have a round in malaysia. I know several years ago there were rounds held in Malaysia.

Just for the record the AKOC championship is most professionally and best run series i have ever competed in and the organisers in malaysia could certainly learn alot from it to improve our own series.

[James Leong]

To HK, why do you have to wait for the AKOC to be held in Malaysia to come to race. We have two rounds of the Asia Max Challenge held here but sadly did not see your entry!! We would love to have you join us in our AMC series.

Coming back to Gary08 mention why there is no AKOC here. I was involved in the early days organising the event here. Due to disputes with another country organiser, Mofaz the then organiser in Malaysia decided to drop this series and do the AMC. I believe City Karting took up the offer to organise the AKOC and also decided to give it up after one year due to demands made upon them from the "organiser" of the series.

If you look at the AKOC which was primary to promote ROK, the bulk of the entries are rotaxs with a few KF3. AMC is basically meant for rotax only as the champion gets a seat to the WF. There are plans to expand the AMC and make it a better series but can only achieve this if owners of rotax engines support this. There were suggestions to open the series to european drivers but that would only meant less chances for our asian drivers to get a seat to the WF. I want to make the AMC series strictly Asian so that more asian drivers gets the chance to compete in the WF and get the exposure. I can get more seats to the WF only if more drivers support the series. Right now, we do not have entries from Japan and China. Why? Maybe HK can let us know.

James Leong

[HK]

To HK, why do you have to wait for the AKOC to be held in Malaysia to come to race. We have two rounds of the Asia Max Challenge held here but sadly did not see your entry!! We would love to have you join us in our AMC series.

Yes James,

Me and my teamates are planning also to race AMC next year, but we'll still race AKOC because they have KF2 class.

Coming back to Gary08 mention why there is no AKOC here. I was involved in the early days organising the event here. Due to disputes with another country organiser, Mofaz the then organiser in Malaysia decided to drop this series and do the AMC. I believe City Karting took up the offer to organise the AKOC and also decided to give it up after one year due to demands made upon them from the "organiser" of the series.

If you look at the AKOC which was primary to promote ROK, the bulk of the entries are rotaxs with a few KF3(Only totally 3 Rotax max raced in AKOC@Philippines). AMC is basically meant for rotax only as the champion gets a seat to the WF. There are plans to expand the AMC and make it a better series but can only achieve this if owners of rotax engines support this. There were suggestions to open the series to european drivers but that would only meant less chances for our asian drivers to get a seat to the WF. I want to make the AMC series strictly Asian so that more asian drivers gets the chance to compete in the WF and get the exposure. I can get more seats to the WF only if more drivers support the series. Right now, we do not have entries from Japan and China. Why? Maybe HK can let us know.

Yeah, I agree it should be a strictly Asian race so that Asian drivers will have better chances, and also the race itself will be more interesting.
I've talk to some Japanese driver, some of them said that they're not coming for the AMC or AKOC are mainly because they think it's too expensive to race an oversea race when there're already some very high quality local races in their home country. In, other words, they think the standard of their local races is higher than ours. For Chinese, it's still hard and expensive for them to get visas in China, especially for the whole racing crew. Moreover, racing sports have just started for only 3 or 4 years for local Chinses (Before only HK drivers raced in mainland China). There're only very few Chinese young drivers racing in the local karting and formula races, it's still not so popular for Chinese drivers(except HK drivers) to race oversea. Takes times.

James Leong

[Gary80]

Yes it is ashame KF2 are not allowed to race in malaysia. We have an open 125 class in malaysia but KF2 are not allowed

There are quite afew of us who have KF2 engines in malaysia and that is why we are competing in AKOC. It is a far more exciting and faster engine then a Rotax or ROK and although the initial cost is higher the ongoing running and maintenance costs are much lower.

There are many KF2 in Hong Kong, Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia and i am sure if malaysia started a class for these engines they would attract more drivers from overseas.

See you in Indonesia HK

[RocK]

the ongoing running and maintenance costs are much lower.

is that correct?

[Gary80]

yes much cheaper

rotax radiator approx 1200
kf2 radiator approx 500
rotax tyres 650
kf2 tyres 550
rotax piston and ring approx 350-400
kf2 piston and ring approx 285
rotax carbi approx 1800
kf2 carbi under 1000


just to show afew items and the list goes on

[mandyrek]

the last akoc in malaysia was held in shah-alam in 2006. for the benefit of the sport and all asian drivers, i think the two factions, akoc organizers and malaysian organizers should sit down again and talk. let bygones be bygones. whatever differences you had before regarding dealerships and/or organizational money should be cast aside. we're all for the improvement of the sport, and it would not help if politics should come into play. i admire the thais in this regard. even if they knew the akoc was a losing proposition in their first year, they never held back and they fully supported it and they're doing it again this year. the more entries we could gather, the better the competition it will generate. the objective is to develop the quality of the asian drivers, and with quality comes success, therefore more people would be enticed and be encouraged to take it up. maybe the akoc organizers are asking for organizational fees because they have to bring in international stewards, and other personnel. we've got some pretty good organization in the last 2 akoc rounds, and i think it's good for the sport, because the cik is now slowly recognizing asia as an important emerging market. and when the manufacturers smell this, you bet, they're gonna high tail it to asia and surely give asia more slots in all world finals be it rotax, rok, or kf classes. the world championship in asia? it used to be just a dream for karters to race in europe with the best. now, they're the ones coming over to us. remember, we have one thing the europeans, american or australians don't have. we 've got the biggest consumer market in the world. karting is no different from any other product. these manufacturers can't ignore it just like that....
if only, we asians, could get our act together! cheers!

[HK]

yes much cheaper

rotax radiator approx 1200
kf2 radiator approx 500
rotax tyres 650
kf2 tyres 550
rotax piston and ring approx 350-400
kf2 piston and ring approx 285
rotax carbi approx 1800
kf2 carbi under 1000


just to show afew items and the list goes on

Yeah, But the engines:

Rotax max HK$20,000.
KF2 HK$35,000.plus

[RocK]

rotax radiator approx 1200
kf2 radiator approx 500
rotax tyres 650
kf2 tyres 550
rotax piston and ring approx 350-400
kf2 piston and ring approx 285
rotax carbi approx 1800
kf2 carbi under 1000

Im all for faster engine, but at what cost..

how many time do we buy extra radiator and carbs. whats the life time of a KF piston?

[James Leong]

There are only 3 rotax max in the AKOC Philippines because Johnny Tan no longers handle the Rotax agency. I have been given the task of being a caretaker distributor to help set up anyone who is interested in handling the rotax line.

I am sure that if there is a track that is available to organise the RMC in Philippines, the rotax will pick up again. I am all for developing drivers from these regions to compete against the europeans. In fact BRP now wants to focus their attention to Asia as they know this is the market for the future.

For the Chinese drivers, if they are really interested in the AMC, all they have to do is write to me and I will see what we can work out in terms of subsidising on hotel & travel for next year.

On the point brought up by Gary 08 on the high cost of parts for rotax, I think the cost of running the KF engines are much higher. I agree that some rotax parts cost more like radiator - which you do not change all the time! You do not need to do rebuilds for the rotax after every race but only require inspection after every 2 races. I have known of drivers who have used their engines right up to 50 hours of running before a rebuild. That's the sort of comparison you need to look at and not just specific prices when they are not MUST change every race items.

When you compare tyre prices, you need to look at specifics again. Duty for tyres in Malaysia cost 40% and ST 10%. You can work out the end price. We are selling the Mojo D2 which is equal to BS YGK/YKB now. For RM550 what tyres are you getting? I maybe wrong but I think it is for BS YJL which is a hobby tyre meant for lower range of usuage. If you want to compare then do it on Mojo vs BS YKB. I am sure the prices will be no different.

James Leong

[brakedisc]

Like most threads here, it is not going anywhere.

[HK]

There are only 3 rotax max in the AKOC Philippines because Johnny Tan no longers handle the Rotax agency. I have been given the task of being a caretaker distributor to help set up anyone who is interested in handling the rotax line.

Yeah, that's the reason........

I am sure that if there is a track that is available to organise the RMC in Philippines, the rotax will pick up again. I am all for developing drivers from these regions to compete against the europeans. In fact BRP now wants to focus their attention to Asia as they know this is the market for the future.

For the Chinese drivers, if they are really interested in the AMC, all they have to do is write to me and I will see what we can work out in terms of subsidising on hotel & travel for next year.

Thank you, I'll see what we can do next season.......

On the point brought up by Gary 08 on the high cost of parts for rotax, I think the cost of running the KF engines are much higher. I agree that some rotax parts cost more like radiator - which you do not change all the time! You do not need to do rebuilds for the rotax after every race but only require inspection after every 2 races. I have known of drivers who have used their engines right up to 50 hours of running before a rebuild. That's the sort of comparison you need to look at and not just specific prices when they are not MUST change every race items.

Trust me, it's more than double the price of maintenance for KF2 than Max (If U wanna be on the podium), it's just like racing the ICA 100cc Reed.

When you compare tyre prices, you need to look at specifics again. Duty for tyres in Malaysia cost 40% and ST 10%. You can work out the end price. We are selling the Mojo D2 which is equal to BS YGK/YKB now. For RM550 what tyres are you getting? I maybe wrong but I think it is for BS YJL which is a hobby tyre meant for lower range of usuage. If you want to compare then do it on Mojo vs BS YKB. I am sure the prices will be no different.

James Leong

[Alex Ritchie]

We had a long discussion earlier this year on another thread on the cost of KF vs Rotax. In my opinion it really depends on how competitive you want to be in KF. According to a KF supplier in Malaysia there are two kinds of KF engines - standard and factory tuned. He said that the KF engines are so new that the independent tuners have not managed to produce good engines yet.

The factory tuned engines are not available to the general market, they are only sold to reputable, established teams. As far as I know, in Malaysia only Kartmore and RL Karting have access to these engines, so you have to join either team or persuade them to sell you a couple of engines if you want to run your own team.

I have not bothered to ask how much a competitive KF engine would cost, but I would guess it is much more than RM9,000/HKD20,000. And you would definitely need more than one... Add the frequency of rebuilds you need to remain competitive. Add the cost of developing the engine as new parts become available.

The KF fun/cost ratio is way too high compared to Rotax for my meager budget. And, judging by the small handful of KF3 entries in AKOC Macau and Philippines, I would venture to say I am not the only one in this boat.

[Mike]

One can certainly learn a lot from this forum. We are running with RL karting and we have not been able to obtain any factory tuned or race tuned KF3 engines. I will be talking to the team pricipal of RL Karting today but would appreciate your source of this information where he has factory tuned engines so that I can obtain 1 as well.

As far as I know, we bought our box standard engine for Macau last year and to date, we have changed 2 pistons and 1 gasket set. Having experienced both engines the maintenance intervals are about similar, well at least for us, having run 3 races and numerous practice sessions.

In Macau,45% of the drivers were running KF3 and at Carmona 30% of the drivers were running KF3. A few of the parents running in with other engines in the junior class have indicated that they are plaaning to run KF3 soon and I am sure it will serve to make racing in general more exciting. I, for one am looking forward to it.

I am sure that each and every engine has its merits, and having raced Rotax last year, I must say that we enjoyed it very much, but having raced KF3 this year, I am enjoying it more and basically spending less on maintenence.

If a particular engine is not for you, that is fine, racing is to be enjoyed, so you will need to choose an class that does that for you. We also have a lot of fun racing Yamaha too.

Hey, if you like racing in a particular class, power to you and lots of respect for being a part of karting in whatever form but you should check your facts on factory tuned engine availability, and what engines are being raced in a particular series that you do not even attend before making sweeping statements.