Karting Forum

Mylaps Kart Timing

It is currently Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:43 am

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Rnd 1 RMC/Injury Update and Comment
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:15 pm 
Rookie

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Singapore
An excellent weekend's racing. Well managed and generally clean. Kudos to the race management for a [i]generally[/i] very well run weekend.

I had a great time (eventually) after failing to complete a lap due to carburettor problems (among others) before Heat 2. Very frustrating but part of the learning curve. Thereafter started to make up for lost track time.

Update on Ang Kok Wee - the Singapore driver who had the accident in the Seniors. He is recovering in hospital in Singapore after being shipped down by ambulance in great pain last night. He has a clean break of the upper left arm and will be out of action for at least 6 weeks.

Amazingly, as anyone who has seen the wreckage of his kart will testify, he did not suffer more serious injuries.

The whole chassis is very bent at the rear end, the left rear rim took the brunt of the fence post impact and has a 1" right-angle dent in the magnesium, as it absorbed the impact and bent the rear axle 45º. The brake and bearing mount are twisted like spaghetti, and the whole side-pod and mounts have bee ripped off. The main and secondary seat stays are bent outwards to the left almost 6 inches. These alone should have meant broken ribs, so it is testimony to the excellence of the Freem rib protectors to disperse the load.

Some big questions must be asked, though about the track safety at that point and in the management of the incident in medical and race control terms.

Why was the race allowed to go back to green after only a few laps when the injured competitor, still in kart and unconscious, was only a few metres off the track, surrounded by unprotected officials, and in a clearly vulnerable position? The race should have been stopped and restarted as per Clause 27 (c) of the Supp Regs.

Why are there not at least 2 rows of tyres stretching back in front of the fence, which has unpadded/unprotected steel posts? At least some form of soft impediment prior to the steel posts. he went off at speed about 10m from the nearest tyre.

Why did it take so long for the medical staff to attend, when it could be seen from a distance that the driver was unconscious and had his head slumped sidewards? Whilst I understand it takes time to determine the extent of the collision, I did not see any medical staff, except what appeared the race doctor, make any move for at least 5 or more minutes.

Why was his helmet removed before stabilising his neck? He has a violent sidewards impact and it would be reasonable to expect even mild whiplash injuries could result.

As I said, the event was generally very well run, but the medical side leaves me a little nervous.

More could be done on track safety and on medical responsiveness and quality of care.

Flame away in defense of the management if you like, but you will have missed my point - that is, that the safety of the competitors must take precedence over the racing. And that on this day, it seemed that it was more the intent than the practice.

I look forward to KB with the expectation that these factors will be attended.

Drew
[/u]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:23 pm 
Rookie

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:32 am
Posts: 11
Location: malaysia
I agree that the meeting was one of the better ones i have raced in but yes the medical response and actions are a major concern. We all talk about safety and protecting drivers and this accident shows the advantage of rib protectors so I am amazed that rib protectors and even the neck supports are not compulsory I for one certainly value my own well being and would not feel comfortable racing without these devices, it is liking driving a car without a seat belt, just an invitation for injury


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: i was behind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:38 pm 
Podium Finisher

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 103
Location: singapore
i agree he was unconscious after the accident....i was 2 karts behind him......gladly he did not sustain any other injuries.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rnd 1 RMC/Injury Update and Comment
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:39 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Malaysia
Thanks for starting this thread Drew. I had no idea who was injured or the extent of the injuries, just saw a guy near the fence and by the second time I drove past I was expecting to see a red flag but one never appeared.

drewcrombie wrote:
Amazingly, as anyone who has seen the wreckage of his kart will testify, he did not suffer more serious injuries.

There have been a few similar incidents in previous years with the fencing completely destroying karts at Sepang and I think Ang Kok Wee has been the worst injured - something really should've been done after what could've happened in those previous incidents as well.


Quote:
Why are there not at least 2 rows of tyres stretching back in front of the fence, which has unpadded/unprotected steel posts? At least some form of soft impediment prior to the steel posts. he went off at speed about 10m from the nearest tyre.

While that was a strange place to go off, it's still a real possibility especially if contact with another kart occurs heading into the last corner.


Quote:
Why did it take so long for the medical staff to attend

They had to be woken up I was told. :shock: Their job description should include remaining awake at all times even though it might be a bit boring for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: congrates
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:45 pm 
Podium Finisher

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 103
Location: singapore
congratulations mikko upon finishing 3rd! hope to see you at round 2....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:11 pm 
World Champion

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Pee Jay, Klang Valley
May I know which corner did this accident happen on?

I did see an ambulance rushing off ( sirens and lite on ) towards PJ on elite highway while I was going to the circuit and said a silent prayer to myself that it was NOT one of the racers...

anyhow, hope he is well on way of recovery.

For sake of safety, let's have a open and productive discussion here so the organisers can improve.

_________________
Why have 300hp when you cannot handle a kart's 30hp?


Last edited by Jules on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:23 pm 
Rookie

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Singapore
Jules, I agree that this should be a productive discussion and not a finger pointing exercise.

Ang went off about 10-15m before the entry to the last corner before the pit straight - turn 10? I believe.

Drew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:45 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Malaysia
It would probably be good to get some kind of protection throughout in front of the fencing. Can't quite remember the CIK recommendations on protecting fencing and what type fencing should be... I do remember having a discussion about the fencing with a KKS official and I think the request (to protect fencing/change fencing) has been made to the track at some point at least.

KB on most parts of the track has a lot of runoff into a field with no fencing in sight so the same issue won't be had there. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:56 pm 
Podium Finisher

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:29 am
Posts: 50
Location: KL
I agree that more protection against hitting the fences close to the track is necessary.
You may all have noticed the youngster walking around at the circuit yesterday on crutches with his leg in plaster - he suffered exactly the same type of accident only 200meters from the same place about 3 weeks ago sliding sideways into one of the fence posts at high speed. He suffered a very painfull broken leg.
We tend to forget that competition racing accidents can cause karts to go off in any direction and I would agree that protection from any hard objects close to the track is required even on the inside of the bends or on the straights.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rnd 1 RMC/Injury Update and Comment
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:44 pm 
World Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 731
Location: P1
drewcrombie wrote:
Why was the race allowed to go back to green after only a few laps when the injured competitor, still in kart and unconscious, was only a few metres off the track, surrounded by unprotected officials, and in a clearly vulnerable position? The race should have been stopped and restarted as per Clause 27 (c) of the Supp Regs.

ohh this stuff still happing? :shock:

_________________
Karting Spammer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:57 pm 
Podium Finisher

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Singapore
Although we've only seen a couple of tracks in Malaysia to date, my son has noted that gravel traps even though proven very effective elsewhere do not seem to be favored in Malaysia. The tracks we've seen (Permas Jaya, Elite, Shah Alam and Sepang) seem to have tyre barriers at the edge of the track or with a fairly narrow strip of grass at some of the more obvious points of danger.

I recall driving at the Macau track some years ago and was so impressed by the pristine raked gravel traps that I thought I'd try them out :D They certainly are more appropriate than the ploughed sandy dirt (very effective, but ruin engines and bearings) or wood chip berms (very effective launching ramps when wet :shock: ) that we're used to seeing in Australia.

Malaysia has some great tracks, some of the best we've seen, but the track safety is lagging.

_________________
you win some, you loose some and you wreck some...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: RE: kart crash
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:23 pm 
Podium Finisher

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Malaysia
kart + tire wall = axle*2

kart + fence post = arm bone*2


Lets say we get some tire walls up asap hey?


KB is a safe circuit apart from the design of the pit entry. There was a pretty bad crash last year there ending up with a fractured hand and bent chassis.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RE: kart crash
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:37 pm 
World Champion

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 318
Ryan104 wrote:

KB is a safe circuit apart from the design of the pit entry. There was a pretty bad crash last year there ending up with a fractured hand and bent chassis.


The pit entry at KB is strange but the crash last year occurred because one driver decided to exit the track at full bore. He crashed into the back of another kart which had already entered the pit lane at much reduced speed. So the crash has to be chalked up to driver error.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:55 am 
World Champion

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Pee Jay, Klang Valley
drewcrombie wrote:
Jules, I agree that this should be a productive discussion and not a finger pointing exercise.

Ang went off about 10-15m before the entry to the last corner before the pit straight - turn 10? I believe.

Drew


Drew,

Thanks and if I understand you correctly.....this is the short section just before the entry to the last fast right sweeper.

Ang must have gone off towards the outside and collected the fence on his LEFT. And if my memory serves me correctly, yes - there is a section of fencing which is without any tyres.

Let me say that this section has seen previous crashes in races before although i was not aware of any serious injury. Nevetheless, this section must be improved.

As a driver - I have seen many drivers trying to cut back towards the left, after a too hot exit from Turn 9 - to get a wider entry into the last fast right bend and if you are following close on the karter's LEFT - he will literally push you off the circuit onto the outside/offroad/fence when he makes this switchback. Of course, this is never intentional but the poor fella following him would have to either brake hard, take avoiding action to this cutting across maneouver of the front kart.

I actually cautioned another karter ( a good friend ) on this as I was following him closely just last weekend before the race.

The design of the fencing for the kart track is also very dangerous. If you look closely - they run cable at various height levels between the posts, to strengthen the fence. The first one is about 2 feet off the dirt level which I can tell u is a potential decaptivating device.

I am also aware that the kart track was a test bed for the main F1 track - ie. they laid the first tarmac here before doing in on the main circuit. Likewise, the design of the fencing was likely a main track design ie. to catch wayward cars etc but not karts.

Anyhow, to mitigate this - the only proper solution is to review all tyre barrier placements again for ALL sections.

Just to remind some of you - The end of Turn 3 caught Eric Yong off once in an endurance kart race few years back ( his partner was Leo Mahr ) and he totalled a Tony Kart after an off there and his kart slid under the fence with him on it. The cable....missed his helmet by inches. He was in shock, had a burst blood vessel in his eyes and thankfully nothing else.

Well, let's use this forum properly and if we get enough responses here - the Moderator should show/coax the organiser to the fact that a review of the barriers at Sepang is very necessary.

_________________
Why have 300hp when you cannot handle a kart's 30hp?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:13 am 
Rookie

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Singapore
Jules, you are bang on with all of your points. Your description of the situation of being pushed off to the left unintentionally is EXACTLY what happened - just 3 karts involved not 2. The inside one pushed the outer over and they touched wheels with Ang who was innocently sent flying. From the moment the wheels touched, Ang was a passenger.

You are probably right re the origins of the fence design. It is similar in style to the main track, though there is a LOT more grass between track and fence on the main circuit and sand-traps before you get there at all main run off areas.

I am not an advocate of sand-traps as if hit at the wrong angle they induce rolling. European car racing has moved progressively to having bitumen run-off areas before fences so that one tends to slide or have room to regain control and, hopefully, rejoin the race.

Gravel traps do less damage to bearings but create very little slowing effect. Smooth close cut grass is OK but again, limits chance of regaining control and is a nightmare if wet.

As I am a newbie (to the forum and to kart racing - my first weekend), I am not keen to make waves but more so to make known my observations having come from a car racing background. I think it would be good if the known, respected voices of Malaysian karting (presume the regulars of this forum from what I see) make a reasoned and unemotional approach to the appropriate authorities/officials to ensure the concerns are accommodated and the tracks made as safe as possible at the least additional cost.

Appreciate the quality of input being contributed from everybody.

Cheers

Drew


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
forums
All submitted content in these forums, either graphical or textual, is the copyright and responsibility of the content creator.

Karting News | Karting Forum | Picture Gallery | Karting Calendar | Kart Tips | Kart Tracks | Contribute | Advertising | Links

phpBB SEO