[Mikko Nassi]

You're right Jules, I'll start a new thread in a bit about controlling cheating in the general section where drivers from other countries can let us know how their local clubs handle it.

Keep it to the Cadets in this thread.

[Alex Ritchie]

I think they are just asked to make the changes, I don't suppose they immediately get disqualified.

They got disqualified from that race but no further action was taken...so some turned up for the next race.

[Mikko Nassi]

So deciding the future of cadet category obviously isn't an easy task. I do think that one thing is quite obvious -> strict post-race tech inspections are a must if engines that are used are owned by drivers (not by organiser). Having people cheating or even rumors of cheating really brings down the spirit of competitors and results in people getting out of the sport.

[Micki]

Hey Guys!

I wandered onto the cadet forum and couldn’t step away.

Many consider the cadet class in kart racing as the most important for its contributions to the sport. It was encouraging to see a dramatic increase in cadet driver numbers this year; this bodes well for the future of karting in Malaysia.

The costs of racing the two-stroke can be quite inhibiting for some, for the reason that two strokes also depend in large proportions on the ability of a good tuner and the second or third engine syndrome to be competitive.

In England the cadet class also races the Honda cadet, a four cycle class with sealed Honda engines. The karts used are the same for both types of engines and both the classes are run together.

For the reason that everything appears to happen more slowly in a four cycle kart, it also gives the driver a better understanding of what the kart is doing and helps to acquire the much needed “feel” sooner, which is good training for a driver in the early stages of race experiences.

Please don’t get the impression that four stroke cadet karts are slow, it might just be what is needed to improve the already impressive cadet grid in Malaysia further.

At KnK Karts we have a cadet chassis that can take a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke engine, the Juvenile as it is named is homologated in England for MSA events. A rolling chassis is priced at around US$ 1250.00.

We will soon have some Juveniles for drivers to check out and test in Malaysia along with other KnK models.

Micki - KnK Karts

[Mikko Nassi]

In England the cadet class also races the Honda cadet, a four cycle class with sealed Honda engines.

I think hondas aren't sealed anymore in the UK - the WTP and 60cc comers are. I've been reading a bit about how they do things over there - they have a maximum price dealers are allowed to sell karts at.

For the reason that everything appears to happen more slowly in a four cycle kart

Four-strokes can be just as fast or just as slow as 2-strokes can't they? Or do you mean that things appear to happen slower because of the different sound? In th UK the Honda and WTP and 60 comer can all be raced together.

We will soon have some Juveniles for drivers to check out and test in Malaysia along with other KnK models.

How soon?

[Micki]

Thanks Mikko, the Honda is not sealed anymore from 2007.

There is a price ceiling as you mention, to keep the cost of a chassis affordable, I believe it is 1300 British Pounds.

Four strokes have a more gradual power band and for the reason that the power doesn't snap in like it does on a tuned two-stroke, it is considered to be a better learning tool for new drivers.

Will post an approximate date of when we can have some karts over for testing in Malaysia on the KnK Forum soon.

Micki - KnK Karts

[Raja Razman]

hi again to all friends and others

ask yourself where are all the drivers who were cheating in their racing career.
How far did they go or how much better they improved since moving up the ladder.
Cheating is not cheap.....it cost almost like another engine.
and yet we are complaining of the same problem elsewhere.
So it means if you win then price is not a problem.

why don't they spent the effort on training or fine tuning the "feel" for the chassis or kart.

AAM disqualifying drivers...ha aha ha ha.
We ALL KNOW it takes two to tango(cheat).
Parents(Dad) / driver and the mechanic or team manager must agreed on something before it can happen...right.
so disqualified the team and the driver.

sometimes commercially it is healthy for the team to win races but at what cost.
so now we know which team is common to bending the rules to the their pockets.
yet we still patron the team and its club and its track.

why do we always blame AAM? they are last people to know anything.
we know who the teams are or the drivers involved so avoid them all together.

a guy was caught with some polishing in the ports and was disqualified - yet in the very next race he used the same cylinder and won but wasn't disqualified.

Ah then AAM is the problem. No wonder they dare to cheat. should at least try yellow card & red card thingy. yellow card for 1st offense, red card if got caught again meaning ban. how long is another subject i think..

No so much AAM but the organisers. For the races Mikko mentioned were held by KKS....so you go figure. KKS canned that class after 2 years and Mikko plus a few other good drivers came from that standard class racing.

At last years AKOC - all our Rotax karts got impounded after the race and I did see the scrutineer ( Suzuki san? ) was opening some engines and used a go no go gauge....

To be honest, the club must enforce this strictly for such class to survive and its not so hard. They must however train their scrutineer to do the job properly and not leave things to the eye etc. Simple Go/No go Gauges should be used and once they start penalise ppl and even banning or give out a fine - everyone will just try their luck.

For those who stick to the standard specs, and if they win - will be accused of cheating by their fellow drivers. I know, I was in that spot immediately after beating one driver fair and square.....sad.

[Raja Razman]

what is the weight of the four-strokers for the cadet.

In England the cadet class also races the Honda cadet, a four cycle class with sealed Honda engines.

I think hondas aren't sealed anymore in the UK - the WTP and 60cc comers are. I've been reading a bit about how they do things over there - they have a maximum price dealers are allowed to sell karts at.

For the reason that everything appears to happen more slowly in a four cycle kart

Four-strokes can be just as fast or just as slow as 2-strokes can't they? Or do you mean that things appear to happen slower because of the different sound? In th UK the Honda and WTP and 60 comer can all be raced together.

four stokers are easy to maintain but very diffcult to modify to make it fast. these engines have very long service interval.
they cost a bit more i think. trouble shooting the engine is also diffcult.

We will soon have some Juveniles for drivers to check out and test in Malaysia along with other KnK models.

How soon?

[Raja Razman]

Damn. if they were to start a championship in Malaysia, the least they could do is serious and organized about it. But could it be because of local authorities? cause i have this inclination that the Malaysia authorities not really keen on foreigners into their markets??

in the year 2005 and 2006 the Malaysian Government spend almost a million ringgit in kart racing in the country. SO I THINK MALAYSIA IS SERIOUS ABOUT KART RACING. AND WE WELCOME ALL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD TO COME HERE AND RACE. ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR: VISIT MALAYSIA YEAR

The problem is that, are the government going to spend the same amount this year or years to come?
they are one of the very few who is spending money on the sports.
what happen to the money?

why didn't it reached to te mainstream drivers or teams OR CHAMPIONSHIP
you give peanuts you get monkeys,
a million ringgit is not peanuts.
can you imagine what kind of things we can improve on if the money was well spent.

SO WHAT HAPPEN TO THE MONEY?
HOW DID THEY MANAGE TO GET AWAY WITH IT?
HOW COME THE SPORTS MINISTRY DID NOT KNOW OF THE PROBLEMS?

THE PROBLEM IS IN THE ORGANISER/PROMOTER OF THE CHAMPIONSHIP.....WHO ELSE

[RocK]

For those who stick to the standard specs, and if they win - will be accused of cheating by their fellow drivers. I know, I was in that spot immediately after beating one driver fair and square.....sad.

to my experience its usually the case of a cheater got beaten. if he cheated, he must be thinking his beaten by another cheat. Sad indeed..

[Alex Ritchie]

ONE million ringgit?? That will buy a whole lot of peanuts...

SO WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE MONEY?

Nothing [as far as I know] flowed down to the teams/drivers in terms of lower entry fees, prize money, subsidies to compete locally and internationally and so on and so forth.

[RocK]

SO WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE MONEY?

sounds like somebody got rich and forgot about karting..

[CRG Asia]

woah woah woah....

Are we refering to a possible Scandle? Mikko, Comments?

[Raja Razman]

BACK TO THE CADETS....

I HAVE A SUGGESTION TO ALL NEW CADET'S PARENTS.

DURING A NORMAL PRACTISE SESSION TRY THIS TEST.

IN A NORMAL PRACTISE DAY, IN ONE OF HIS/HERS SESSION DROP THE TYRE PRESSURE BY 30% WITHOUT TELLING THE DRIVER.

IF THE DRIVER CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCES THEN THAT DRIVER IS NOT READY FOR RACING JUST PLAYING WILL DO.

IF THE DRIVER COMPLAIN AFTER 1 LAP THEN WE A DRIVER WITH NATURAL FEEL FOR THE RIDE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS CRG ASIA?

woah woah woah....

Are we refering to a possible Scandle? Mikko, Comments?

[CRG Asia]

Sounds good. But i highly doubt Parents will do that. THe reason why the parents want to spend so much money for their kids is because they want their kids to race. God knows what might happen if you reduce pressure by 30%. Parents wouldn't do it.

But good concept.