[Mikko Nassi]

Do you guys think that the quality really will be like that of European karts and they could become a real worry for European manufacturers real soon? I mean if someone else is offering a product of comparable quality but at half the price you might be in real trouble!

Even if it doesn't perform quite as well as a European chassis I think the massive price difference will be enough to justify buying the chassis especially for new drivers.

If you don't know what SQ Racing is just check the main page of KartingAsia.com and the feature article on SQ Racing.

[RocK]

is it homologated?

back in the early 90s, Thailand try to do the same thing. to offer cheaper karts to the European's. It was indeed cheaper until they homologated their karts and parts. which by then the cost was almost par to the European's karts.

Then it never perform. I remember in the 2nd Kelantan KKS race, NKT team with Thailand best driver at the time (Munkong) came to race.
He was struggling to keep up with the pace. i recall after heats during weighing, i had a quick peek at his tyres and all 4 have different wear rate.

for a rentals sure its a good choice. for newcomer, im sure buying a used 2+ years brand chassis is a better choice. because when it get serious and aiming for virtories, u have to look at the European's karts. especially so when the race is tyre control.

they really have to spend millions on R&D if they want to be competitive. additional millions for the engine side too.

my view, the Europeans wont be worried at all..

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like to say Hi Mikko. Thanks for having a karting forums. Just wish you started early when im still racing.

[Mikko Nassi]

is it homologated?

I think probably not - I emailed Mark of SQ Racing to ask if it is and if not do they intend to apply for homologation, and finally how much they think it should add to the cost if they do.

Great insight on the Thailand made karts, any idea what were the karts were called and who designed them? I remember Munkong and I know he's a good driver so the problem wasn't the nut behind the wheel.

I can see how the homologations can add a lot to the cost because in addition to the chassis you have to homologate the brakes and side pods for example.

my view, the Europeans wont be worried at all..

Very possible.

like to say Hi Mikko. Thanks for having a karting forums. Just wish you started early when im still racing.

HI!:) What's stopping you from racing again?

[Iskandar]

Don't we Malaysians have a commercially available kart on the market, the Rosedi Extreme Kart? for 10k it's looks a good deal...I wonder if the kart's able to take a 125...whatddaya think, Mr moderator-san?

[Mikko Nassi]

RocK I got the answer to the homologation question and the chassis should be CIK homologated within a few months (already underway). They know that in some countries you aren't allowed on track if it isn't CIK-homologated. The answer as to how much it will add to the cost was "only a little."

I think the scale that these guys are working at will make keeping the costs low not much of a problem.

[CRG Asia]

One thing that we have to understand about china is that the labour is cheap. That is why company make use of that fundamental reason to produce their goods in China.

But in terms of karting, lets look at the cost involved. First of there is the R&D. That means millions and millions pumped into finding the right combination and material.

So assuming you have a good enough kart by then, and you are going to have it homologated by CIK FIA. And this is going to set you back quite a lot.

If they are claiming that they will have a Kart that is half the price of the italians and also have it to be of the same quality, i'll say that it is 100% impossible. Why?

Yes, china labor may be cheap but the fundamental cost of the material doesn't change. The price of that high grade metal is expensive all over the world. If it was really cheaper in China, i will reckon that Airbus A380 planes will start to be made in China instead of spending billions making it in different countries in Europe.

So in my opinion, NO Contest. Even if it is indeed 50% cheaper, no way it will have the performance of the Karts like CRG, Tony or Birel.

[Mikko Nassi]

A lot of great points CRG. Particularly the point about the raw material costs.

A lot of the production for parts is in fact almost fully automated so cheap labor doesn't help there. For example the Wild Kart factory which make a lot of parts for other chassis manufacturers only have 11 people on staff and most machines can be run 24hrs unmanned.

If it was really cheaper in China, i will reckon that Airbus A380 planes will start to be made in China instead of spending billions making it in different countries in Europe.

You might be a bit surprised that a lot of parts for both Airbus and Boeing planes are made in china. Both companies have a very large presence in China. Of course they aren't quite making engines for the planes yet, but they are making a lot of critical parts!

So in my opinion, NO Contest. Even if it is indeed 50% cheaper, no way it will have the performance of the Karts like CRG, Tony or Birel.

Yeah I don't see it being able to match the top Euro karts - however for thousands of hobby karters around the world that maybe do a few club races paying 50% and going a few tenths slower (if they can drive good enough for the chassis to make a difference) is probably worth the price - especially for the large amount of karters that don't even race - I think this should worry the Euro manufacturers a bit as it does cut right into their market share. Then again it might actually help the Euro manufacturers because it might spur a lot of new drivers into the sport who after a year or two on an SQ kart will want to get a "proper Euro kart."

[RocK]

i was let to believe homologation would cost a arm and a leg. every parts needs homologation. every updated and new parts too. its all gonna add up. maybe that was in the old days only. who knows.

being 50% cheaper and a few tenths slower dont really sells itself.

for SQ Racing to sell, they have to do something like Max/Rok championship. 1 made chassis and 1 made engine. offer fully paid races for every top 3-6 from every country to an annual world meet finals. now all this again cost more $$ to promote and market. which is they have to complete with Max and Rok championship. cuz not many karters and follow more then 1 championship. but this case being cheaper might work for them.

i honestly think these factories have a better life just sellings parts and accessories. hope they prove me wrong.

HI! What's stopping you from racing again?

married, kids and ages

i will reckon that Airbus A380 planes will start to be made in China instead of spending billions making it in different countries in Europe.

now thats gonna have the same augments im making here. how on earth can u sell a 50% cheaper and few hours slower plane to the airliners of the world.

[Mikko Nassi]

Don't we Malaysians have a commercially available kart on the market, the Rosedi Extreme Kart?

Sorry missed this post! I've never actually seen the kart. I remember talking to Rosedi years ago when he was planning it. Does he actually make the chassis here? On his website it claims it's CIK homologated so I think it might be a chassis from somewhere else and re-badged as a rosedi kart? There certainly is no rosedi-kart in the CIK homologation lists.

i was let to believe homologation would cost a arm and a leg. every parts needs homologation. every updated and new parts too. its all gonna add up. maybe that was in the old days only. who knows.

Yeah I thought it would be expensive as well - but I guess they think that they'll be making so many of the chassis it won't have a large impact. I think it would add a lot to the cost if you only produce 100-200 chassis a year - but if you're producing 2000++ chassis a year it might not add much?!? If they homologate their brakes, sidepods etc they can sell them to other kart manufacturers as well.

hope they prove me wrong.

That's what I'm hoping - I'm also not expecting it to be a resounding success but it would be great if it is.

how on earth can u sell a 50% cheaper and few hours slower plane to the airliners of the world.

LOL

[CRG Asia]

Mikko,

Good point pointed out about having this catered to the joy drivers for leisure weekend fun. Actually if you put it in this way, i will say that it might be a good thing after all.

Think about it. Joy drivers enter the industry because of the cheaper karts. And sooner and later they get hooked onto the sport( It surely will hook them, i'm sure all of you will know) then eventually they will go out and buy themselves a proper kart. Win win for everyone. We will have more racers taking part and SQ racing will have a ton of people to sell to. Perfect combination.

[Jules]

Hi all,

Just to add to the discussion...

The Chinese are great copiers and hence will do well for mass produced goods......if it requires high tech and constant R&D - I think they wun be competitive esp if they are a private enterprise.

Whilst they may do well at copying the 1st chassis - racing is such that you need to be there and improving your chassis ALL the time. In my opinon, this will be their weakest point.

So, in summary - for fun karting chassis, yes they can be there. For CIK homologated chassis and world class racing......they wun be there.

For the Rosedi Kart - it is a copy of the GOLD brand kart which I first saw raced in 2000/2001. I spoke to Rosedi last year and have not seen any of his branded karts used or raced to date. Great effort by him tho but dunno if he got his returns.....

[Mikko Nassi]

Hi Julian!

The SQ kart is actually designed by an Australian and input from an Italian and Canadian and they've all been involved in karting for a long time. So it's not a copy of anything. Same goes for the engine - while some parts such as the starter and clutch assembly can be used in a Leopard it is not a copy.

It's made in a large Chinese factory that make all sorts of small engines and fun-kart type stuff so all the equipment to build the chassis and parts was there already. They fully expect their chassis to be copied within 18 months by other Chinese factories but are confident that they won't be able to build it to the same level of quality,

They really are heading in with a bang - their first production run is going to be 3000 karts which are all (I think) sold to kart shops/distributors around the world.

[Jules]

oh well, I do hope the aussie and canadian stays long enough and gets real world racing experience to constantly develop their products.

In racing - the real r&d is on the track and winning races is a sure demonstration of what works and not.

for the sake of karting - sure, their effort is to be applauded and encouraged!

[Mikko Nassi]

They are making their Australian racing debut for the chassis in August! We'll see how it goes over there! One of their drivers is Barclay Holden - remember him, he did a round or two in Malaysia in 2001 I think?

[Jules]

They are making their Australian racing debut for the chassis in August! We'll see how it goes over there! One of their drivers is Barclay Holden - remember him, he did a round or two in Malaysia in 2001 I think?

Yup, I remember him.....