Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

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Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby pistole » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:30 pm

- have a pretty basic question.

Image

- Out , In , Out.
.

- what the literature seems to emphasise alot of is the unwinding of the steering as soon as you clear the apex.

- this is plainly obvious (if you didn't unwind , you'd spear off into the bushes).

- but they all seem to say that you must almost have your wheel at the straight-ahead position after clearing the apex. I can't seem to do this. I will unwind at , probably , the same rate as when I entered the corner.

- is it me getting it wrong ? Or is the literature exaggerating the issue ?

- thanks !!
.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby mlange » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:15 am

dont take the material literally .... the angle of your steering is a function of throttle management, the type of corner you are taking, whether you are taking an early or late apex, prioritisation of entry or exit speed, chassis setup, driver's personal style, etc

i think in keeping the literature concise, possibly key assumptions (on the above) are not further explained.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby pistole » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:46 am

- hi.

- example :


http://www.karting1.co.uk/kartsteering-karting.htm

5. He holds that steer angle on the wheel until he hits the apex. And take not how he hits a late apex

6. As soon as he hits the apex he straightens the wheel

7. Next important bit: After straightening the wheel he still needs to adjust the direction of the kart- so he makes tiny adjustments, anxiously, and then gets the wheel straight again...he is constantly concerned with keeping that wheel straight ahead, and only turns in small increments...absorb this point!


.
.

- sorry , but that does not make any sense.

- if we all " ... as soon he hits the apex he straightens the wheel .... " , alamak .... sure everyone crash lah. Fly all directions.

.

- another example :

" Is the kart not turning-in fast enough? Are you having to induce too much steering to get that inside/front tire back down to the stripe at the apex? Are you having to hold or add steering past the apex (big no no!), "


http://thekartshop.net/blog/?p=96


- what ? Don't hold steering after apex ? Macam mana lah ? Straight after apex , straight steering wheel ? Where to learn this kind of super technique , wei ?

.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby Mikko Nassi » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:56 pm

Don't think of it as having to have it absolutely straight after the apex. The literature does exaggerate it a bit. In a hairpin-type corner that you've posted a picture of your turn-in should be a bit later so the most steering is done at initial turn-in well before the apex, and the you unwind.

The intention is to have most of your steering done before the apex. In a kart you actually hold almost the same amount of steering angle all the way from initial entry to the apex. In a car there is usually more of a gradual increase of steering input and more of a gradual decrease on the exit. This is because in a kart the aim is to have the inside rear wheel lift - when it does the kart turns nicely and there is no need to dial in much more steering input.

When you start exiting the corner you definitely don't want to be steering more. If that is happening it means you've choked the exit (if you didn't dial in more steering you'd run off the track). The problem with steering more after the apex is that you can't possibly keep accelerating if you're also steering more. You end up creating understeer (because you're asking for your front tyres to turn more than they can at the speed you're trying to go) which often quickly snaps into oversteer.

I'm not that good at putting this into writing. Here's a video that shows how the technique effects your corner exit. I hope you're a Schumacher fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Hoqw0oHdg#t=1m38s
The video should start at about 1m38 in, and from there until 1m50 pay attention to the track use at the corner exit.

Notice how Schumacher hits the edge of the track a full kart length or so later compared to the other drivers? The other drivers have to put in more steering input when they get to the edge of the track because they would run out on to the dirt if they didn't. Schumacher on the other hand makes it to the edge of the track a lot more gradually, and doesn't need to put in a lot of steering input which would slow the kart down when it's supposed to be accelerating hard.

Schumacher is the only one that isn't choking the exit. The driver right before Michael and the next 4 drivers actually make a real mess of the exit having to steer quite violently near the edge of the track.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby pistole » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:57 pm

- hi Mikko,

- the bit where you said that a driver shouldn't be ADDING to the steering after corner
apex makes alot of sense. Ie , if the driver is adding steering , it probably means that
he's overcooked the corner.

- my complaint is with the way the literature is written. Ie , with the clear impression that after
corner apex , the steering should be straight ... imho , that's plain wrong and misleading.

- if it said :

" ... after corner apex , gradually unwind the steering whilst feeding in throttle .... " ,

that would make perfect sense.

- thanks for the replies.
.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby mlange » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:27 pm

pistole wrote:- hi Mikko,

- the bit where you said that a driver shouldn't be ADDING to the steering after corner
apex makes alot of sense. Ie , if the driver is adding steering , it probably means that
he's overcooked the corner.

- my complaint is with the way the literature is written. Ie , with the clear impression that after
corner apex , the steering should be straight ... imho , that's plain wrong and misleading.

- if it said :

" ... after corner apex , gradually unwind the steering whilst feeding in throttle .... " ,

that would make perfect sense.

- thanks for the replies.
.


actually, its not that misleading, it just has a lot of assumptions behind it, that the writer doesnt include.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby pistole » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:07 am

- hi.

- Question : how do you guys corner ? Smooth ? Taking the "correct" lines , etc ? Am getting better lap times when I toss the thing around , eg , sharp steering inputs to get the back loose for a steeper corner entry.

- ie , am trying to keep the steering "straight" , minimal steering inputs. The classic "steer through the turn" doesn't seem to work with karting !!!! Too slow.

- or i dun know anything ??

- help !!!
.
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Re: Unwinding Steering After Corner Apex ?

Postby Jules » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:33 am

Pistole,

SMOOTH is always good and for a begineer, a MUST.


all that drifting looks spectacular but in fact slow and wun do your tyres any good.
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